November 2000 Message Archive

Wednesday, November 01, 2000 at 17:01:37 (PST)

Jest in case someone got a few hours on their hands with nothing to do;

Dear Mr Womack

For details of all those who were members of the University
throughout the 14th and 15th centuries, the main source of
information is A.B Emden's, 'A biographical Register of the
University of Oxford to AD. 1500', a printed register of
all those who are thought to have attended Oxford during
this time.

For the 16th Century, A.B Emden published, 'A biographical
Register of the University of Oxford AD. 1501-1540'.
Another source of information for the 16th Century is
Joseph Foster's 'Alumni Oxonienses, 1500-1714'. This is a
printed register of all those who matriculated (were
formally admitted to the University), between those years.

Copies of these books can be found in most major reference

Yours sincerely

Jennifer Birnie
Archives Assistant
(Oxford University)

Now cant find any on Oxford on line at this momment but mebbe someone can help
by looking these up and see if there were any Womacks at Oxford also.

Thursday, November 02, 2000 at 15:27:20 (PST)

Funny you should mention Joseph foster's 1500 - 1714 Oxford Uni records....
I just happen to have it to hand.

The only record of a Womack at Oxford at that time is....guess....
The Old Bishop Laurence!


WOMACK, Laurence: matric (Cantab) 15 Dec. 1629, B.A. from BENET (C.C.) Coll, Cambridge, 1632-3; M.A. 1636, D.D. per literas Regis 1661; incorporated to july 1636; rector of Horringer, Suffolk, canon of Hereford 1660, and of Ely 1660, rector of Boxford, Suffolk, 1663, Archdeacon of Suffolk 1660, bishop of St. Davids 1683, until his death 12 March 1685 at Westminster. See Foster's Graduuti Cantab.; Fasti,ii 267; London Marriage Licences, ed. Foster; & Add. MS. 15,669.
Interestingly he shares a page with the great Cardinal Thomas Wolsey.

I also found a record of Suffolk Hearth Tax for 1674 and for Horringer ((Horningerth) in Thingoe). It says that Dr. Womacke had 8 hearths (third largest house in village). If Laurence was a DD then this could be his house.

Another point, David said he thought that Laurences daughter Ann was buried at Westminster with her father but she pre-deceased him, dying at 19. It is unlikely that they disinterred her from somewhere else and put her in Westminster. Apparently she is mentionned the Latin inscription but only the VIP's themselves were buried in Westminster. Document DNB 1909 Francis Hills is faulty.
He had no children with his last wife, she was a 40 year old spinster when he married her and his second wife was dead within 2 years of marriage.
Also I am absolutely sure that ann (wife 1) and daughter Ann are not buried in the aisle at horringer (as the Womack of Mautby states) because I have stood next to their brass plaque and I never went as far West as Horringer, which is just south of Bury St. Edmunds. I visited all the churches listed at the top of the pedigree :- Bradwell, Caistor, Mautby, Fersfield and Winterton. I'm 99% sure it was Caistor. All these mentionned churches bear the Womack arms somewhere within their walls..
Sorry to bore you all.


Thursday, November 02, 2000 at 16:45:41 (PST)

Boring?? No! Interesting?? Yes!!

Now, why havent we seen a photo of those Arms, even tho we are not authorized
them ourselves - that would be interesting to say the least -

Jan thanks for your input on this - you are, fortunately for us, in a great
position to now and then take a peek into the past there and enlighten your
relatives, tho distant, in the "colonies" about a few matters.

Also, sometime when you have a whim - a photo of the area around Womack Water
with the sign or whatever would be nice - asking too much?? Aww Gee!! Didnt mean to......!!!!


Thursday, November 02, 2000 at 19:43:20 (PST)
David Dunn

Jan, Sam and everybody. The Oxford record shows, I believe, that the Bishop received his Doctorate from Oxford in 1661 as what would today be called an honorary degree. And to nitpick, what I said was that the DNB (Dictionary of National Biography) said that his daughter Ann was buried at Westminster but that it could be wrong because it doesn't even mention wife one her mother.


Thursday, November 02, 2000 at 20:21:37 (PST)

OK if Anne, Wife one was mother of Anne daughter - and she was abt 19 when she died - and Anne wife two died a few years before he married wife 3 the spinster so to speak, and as I remember someone said he was 53 when the daughter was born making that about 1665, and he married Katherine about 1669/70 the he had to have been married to Anne 1, who died, then Anne 2 who died and then married
Katherine, all in a span of less than a decade. AND if Anne the daughter was born abt 1665, and was 19 when she died, and she predeceased Lawrence, then how did he die before 1694?


Thursday, November 02, 2000 at 20:24:40 (PST)

OOPS!!!Sorry got over enthusiastic on dates - then she died about a year or so before he did - I stand corrected on that but not necessarily the three wives in the 10 year period

Thursday, November 02, 2000 at 22:04:35 (PST)

This may be a silly question, but does anyone know of any existing photographs of Larkin Womack?


Friday, November 03, 2000 at 00:16:28 (PST)

I don't know when Laurence married Ann 1. All I know is she died in 1665 therefore as you say daughter Ann was born prior to this but may have only marginally pre-deceased him. If Laurence didn't marry until he was in his fifties then Ann 1 must have died soon after he married her so maybe she died in childbirth. He then had 2 wives in quick succession. how odd not to have married for so long and then take a rush at it! I'd love to know the reason.

I sent Mark a photo of the Arms a couple of years ago and he kindly reproduced it and put in in the "Treatise of English Womacks" feature so take a peek.

Sam, I'd love to oblige but Norfolk and suffolk are a bit off the beaten track for me and the areas more than a bit boring - (think south-east Montana with rain)! Apart from the few churches with a mention of Womacks there isn't anything else. I suppose an enthusiast might get a sense of history going there but I was as keen as mustard and wasn't inspired. Now - St. Margaret's, Westminster & that memorial, now that was thrilling. It sits right above one of Princess Dianas ancestors. The Norfolk\Suffolk area (known as East Anglia) is now depopulated and is nothing like the major centre East Anglia was when the Bish was there. There is a church at Gestlingthorpe where William Womack was vicar in about 1570 and that is a lovely church. He is mentioned on the scroll of clergy at the church entrance and as it is the parish church of Laurence (Titus) Oates, (of Scott of the Antarctic fame - "I'm going out, I may be some time"), there is a wonderful stained glass memorial to him there. Womack Water is just a stretch of canal & lock on the Norfolk Broads - blink and you've missed it. Much more Womack history in Yorkshire!


Friday, November 03, 2000 at 00:43:46 (PST)
Albert Wages

Looking for parents of Nancy Womack who married Moses J. Wages, 23 Dec 1867 in Arkansas. They had three chldren; Martin, Amanda and Missouri Caldona My GGF James Franklin Wages was Nancy's stepson by Moses' ist wife who died. Would appreciate any info on Nancy and her family line.


Friday, November 03, 2000 at 08:10:43 (PST)
David Dunn

Jan. In fact I don't think we know when Bishop Lawrence married his first wife. We only know when she died. They might have married when young, which is why I say, since they were clearly capable of having kids, they may have had others. We know very little about the Bishop from the time he left Cambridge until the Restoration. It's conceivable his kids left England at the time of the civil war to escape persecution, since the family (at least those we know about) were all Royalists.


Friday, November 03, 2000 at 08:21:53 (PST)
David Dunn

Jan. You mentioned Gestlingthorpe. Would that be Gestingthorpe in Essex? Not all that far from Horringer, even closer to Boxford, two benefices the Bishop held. How did you find out a William was vicar there? I wonder who he was?


Friday, November 03, 2000 at 11:20:58 (PST)

David, Yes Gestlingthorpe is in Essex. We lived there 10 years ago and that is when we visited this pretty little church. I knew about William being vicar there because I had seen a copy of Essex wills at the SofG and William was mentioned so I photocopied the bit with his name on.
Quote: Witnesses.....William wommocke, clerk ,(rector of Gestlingthorpe),...proved by Joan, saving power to William when he shall come.
(end quote)
Underneath this photocopy of the will of gentleman ?X? (I didn't note his name and it was on the previous page..der..) I have written:- Will Womock, vicar of Gestlingthorpe 1570 - 1582. I don't know why,or when I wrote this but I suspect it was after visiting Gestlingthorpe church when I would have gleaned this info from the roll of vicars. Jan


Friday, November 03, 2000 at 11:26:51 (PST)

I have just realised why this william may be important to you Womacks "over there". Could just be the link to the mysterious W the I!!
I have seen somewhere in my huge unfiled files some reference to his family. I believe he was son of william and had a son called wiiliam....I go to search.


Friday, November 03, 2000 at 15:09:35 (PST)
David Dunn

Jan. Right on. Of the Norfolk Williams, we know of (I have to label them for now just to keep them straight): William One of East Dereham; his son William Two of East Dereham d. 1653; his son William Three of E.D. d. 1585 called "Sr." so either he had a son William Four or there was a younger William around from whom he had to be distinguished. There is a William Y of E.D. died 1643 probably/possibly too young to be son of William Three maybe grandson so there might be a William X in between Three and Y. Either Three or X could be the vicar of Gestlingthorpe, and Three, X and Y might be William the Immigrant links. So we await with interest results of your search.


Friday, November 03, 2000 at 15:23:18 (PST)
David Dunn

OOPS. William Two died 1563 not 1653.


Friday, November 03, 2000 at 17:04:41 (PST)

Reat the "Treatise" and found one note of interest you had mentioned before,
the "Hummock" pronunciation. There are a number of "Hammocks" in early Virginia that appear just to be there. I have a "gut feeling" that these Hammocks are
indeed the result of the "Hummock" pronunciation. No Proof, but appear to need a looksee at best, which I will do.

On Laurence's crest, we have to remember if it was his personal one, it died with him..if it was a family one thru his father, grandfather, etc it may poss
be a hand-me-down.. As I remember, though, the arms and crest went to the eldest son, the son of the eldest and so on - not to all sons in the family--
Correct me if I am wrong; but that is the impression I got from a reply from the College of Arms there in the UK a few years ago..

Jan, you do not know how much we appreciate your reseach and contributions..
There is no way most of us could ever travel to the UK and do that ourselves.
So we are truly grateful for your gracious input!!

Friday, November 03, 2000 at 17:12:01 (PST)
Roger Womack

Only the oldest son would inherit his familyís coat of arms unchanged; his younger brothers would usually add a symbol to show who they were. The symbol a younger son added was often a smaller picture placed in the middle of the shield. When a woman married, especially if she had no brothers, the coat of arms of her family was often added to her husbandís arms. Sometimes the arms were quartered, or divided into parts. In this case, the manís family coat of arms was in the upper left quarter (as you look at the coat of arms) and lower right, while the womanís familyís arms were in the other two quarters. Shields are generally "read" like a book, starting at the upper left, going across and then down.

I'm not ignoring you guys, Mark and I are busy with the WGN researchers update, won't be long we should have it together. Rog

Saturday, November 04, 2000 at 00:19:58 (PST)

The Bishop's crest was created just for him.
Have I given you the references before? Well anyway here they are again.

"WOMACK of Mettingham, Horringer, Boxted.
Laurence W., Archdeacon of Suffolk, Bishop of St. Davids.
ref, Davy.misc.Gen 5th,S.VIII,317-20 (pedigree). Papworth 63-4.Kett*(pedigree 5)


Saturday, November 04, 2000 at 05:33:23 (PST)

Hmm, on the references it does appear to indicate he was a poss 5th generation and that there are 4 pages to the pedigree.

Also, wonder what the middle initial stands for? An uncle William perhaps??
Speculation of course, and if there were a William born near the time
Lawrence/Laurence's was, poss T I (the immigrant) Womack brother or first
cuz to the ole Bish..if only all the old church records are extant and accessible today!!

David, why dont you show that line as you had it and Jan mentioned , the three Williams in a row, then, I think an Arthur, then a Hugh and Lawrence, then etc I took a wrong turn in a roundabout,and and ended up in a cow pasture so to speak!!


Saturday, November 04, 2000 at 07:46:11 (PST)
Paul Latimer

Re: Zachias Chesshir. Can anyone please tell me if there is a connection between the Chesshir family of the Womack tree and Zachias Chesshir, born 1792 in Virginia, married Keturah around 1815, moved to Howard/Pike County, Arkansas mid 1800s, almost certainly by way of Bedford County TN. I will be most grateful for any and all information relating to this connection. Thanks. Paul Latimer, Louisville KY.


Saturday, November 04, 2000 at 08:03:22 (PST)
Paul Latimer

Re: Tacy Floyd. Does anyone know of a Womack connection with Tacy Floyd, born mid-1700s, married David Jones. Tacy is such an unusual name and there is one in gen. 1 of the Womack genealogy. There is, I believe, a Floyd somewhere. Thanks.


Saturday, November 04, 2000 at 08:30:15 (PST)
Paul Latimer

Re: Tacy Floyd. After a bit of digging, I can to some extent answer my own question and supply some additional data to the Womack genealogy. The genealogy begins with Michael Womack and Sarah (Sally) Jones. Sarah Jones is the daughter of Charles Jones and Rebecca Norman. Charles Jones is the son of David Jones and Tacy Floyd. This Tacy Floyd is undoubtedly the source of the name Tacy which runs through the Womack family generation after generation. I am still looking for a connection between Tacy Floyd and Anthony Floyd, wife of Mariah Womack. I can supply more data on the above Womack ancestors on request.


Saturday, November 04, 2000 at 16:55:18 (PST)

If the ref says 5th generation of a 4 page document it must refer to the Womack of Mautby document. that runs to 4 pages and the line goes
1.William Wamuke 2.William Womocke, bap 1517 3. Hugh womocke, willpr. 1538 4.Lawrence willpr.1658
and finally 5. The Bishop Laurence 1638.

PS.HELP! I can't access my emails. the ? stays on and a box appears and says my password is no longer valid! Anyone know what this means? It won't accept the old or a new password.

Saturday, November 04, 2000 at 21:41:02 (PST)

How long has it been since you dumped or cleaned your E mail cache?
That could be a possibility and it just wont accept it there is no more may have to delete and reload your mail service...perhaps a
call to your server is in order?

On Da Bishop--Quoting from David's earlier post:

"Wife One (Ann) was buried at Horringer in 1665; daughter Ann was christened
21 August 1665 (IGI, extracted from parish records) so she must be the daughter
of his first wife - maybe she died in childbirth. Anyway the daughter was
born when the Bishop was 53."

Your quote from Foster: "WOMACK, Laurence: matric (Cantab) 15 Dec. 1629, B.A. from BENET (C.C.) Coll" This would close align with the Cambridge date -

Your quote from Mautby showed the bishop born in 1638 - the Cambridge Alumni
showed it as 1612, which would coincide with the statement David made and from Foster..Not saying either of you are wrong, but either Mautby, Foster or Cambridge is...

Also this one:
"Thos. Ellis, clerk v. Richd. Woods, John Womack.: Rectory of S. and N. Lopham. Tithes.: Suffolk 15 & 16 Chas 2 - Public Record Office, Kew" - Any idea what date 15 and 16 Chas 2 is??

Sunday, November 05, 2000 at 01:04:14 (PST)
Lavonda Womack

I am looking for my husband's family. My husband's father was Jack Womack, his father was Clyde Womack and his mother was Clara Sanders. There were several brothers, Cecil, Kenneth, Jimmy and Bob. I know Clyde died April 1961 in Kerman, California. I just saw a picture at my mother-in-laws of Clyde and a brother but she couldn't remember his name. Would love to find Clyde's parents as well as his brothers and possible sisters. Clyde was in his 60's when he died.


Sunday, November 05, 2000 at 08:09:02 (PST)
Ann McDonald

Sam, Chas II is probably King Charles II - 1660-1680 - give or take. Got me as to what the 15 and 16 is - possibly the 15th and 16 year of his reign?


Sunday, November 05, 2000 at 11:23:32 (PST)

Sounds good to me!!


Sunday, November 05, 2000 at 16:33:07 (PST)

Womack of Mautby says Laurence bapt. 1st March 1613-4 (? old calendar). His brother John of N. Lopham bapt. S. Lopham 1st April 1616.


Sunday, November 05, 2000 at 16:49:51 (PST)
David Dunn

All right I will try one more time but it would be easier if the "Womack of Mautby" pedigree was on the site. "Womack of Mautby" starts with a William Wamuke (whom I called William One) of East Dereham. William One had a son William Womocke whom I called William Two, died 1563, of East Dereham. William Two had a son William Womocke whom I called William Three, died 1585, of East Dereham. Now it gets interesting. William Three had sons Hugh Womocke of East Dereham and Arthur Womock Rector of South Lopham. "Womack of Mautby" shows Hugh as the father of Lawrence father of Bishop Lawrence, and shows no progeny for Arthur. Other pedigrees (including the bogus one paid for by John Warburton Womack) show Arthur as the father of Lawrence father of Bishop Lawrence. The other pedigrees show Arthur as the link, I believe, because the Cambridge Alumni records show Lawrence the Bishop's dad as "doubtless" the son of Arthur, apparently because they were two guys with the same surname at the same college one generation apart. Who knows which is correct? (The Shadow knows!). Anyway the William mystery occurs because only Hugh and Arthur are shown as sons of William Three. But William Three also was called William Senior. Who then was Wiliam Junior? There was another William (not placedaround whom I called William Y who might have been another son of William Three, or his grandson, son of a William X, or somebody else entirely.


Sunday, November 05, 2000 at 16:49:52 (PST)
David Dunn

All right I will try one more time but it would be easier if the "Womack of Mautby" pedigree was on the site. "Womack of Mautby" starts with a William Wamuke (whom I called William One) of East Dereham. William One had a son William Womocke whom I called William Two, died 1563, of East Dereham. William Two had a son William Womocke whom I called William Three, died 1585, of East Dereham. Now it gets interesting. William Three had sons Hugh Womocke of East Dereham and Arthur Womock Rector of South Lopham. "Womack of Mautby" shows Hugh as the father of Lawrence father of Bishop Lawrence, and shows no progeny for Arthur. Other pedigrees (including the bogus one paid for by John Warburton Womack) show Arthur as the father of Lawrence father of Bishop Lawrence. The other pedigrees show Arthur as the link, I believe, because the Cambridge Alumni records show Lawrence the Bishop's dad as "doubtless" the son of Arthur, apparently because they were two guys with the same surname at the same college one generation apart. Who knows which is correct? (The Shadow knows!). Anyway the William mystery occurs because only Hugh and Arthur are shown as sons of William Three. But William Three also was called William Senior. Who then was Wiliam Junior? There was another William (not placedaround whom I called William Y who might have been another son of William Three, or his grandson, son of a William X, or somebody else entirely.


Sunday, November 05, 2000 at 16:53:50 (PST)
David Dunn

In my previous there shoud be a ")" after "placed" at the end.


Sunday, November 05, 2000 at 17:49:53 (PST)

It appears to me witht all the Williams runnning around, and the now John bro of the bishop that Jan found, that perhaps da bishop had a bro named William who abdicated to the colonies?

In a family that appears to have had some sort of importance as these dudes;
there has to be a parish/church record of wimmen and kiddos...

So much speculation and no sustenance other than at Mom and Dad Womack's Fish and Chips! LOL


Sunday, November 05, 2000 at 23:32:12 (PST)
Former Webmaster

All, I just have to say something here. Roger and I have been working to update the WGN member's page. We all know that the current page(s) are in sad shape and way out of date. So, Roger has been working to add the new members to a data file that we can use to generate a new set of pages (using a Java program I am writing). He started with the 279 that are listed currently. He is now up to 560! Now some of these listings are probably old or have bad email addresses, but still that is a tremendous number. And (I think) there are still more to come.

Anyway, I just wanted to thank Roger again for taking this task on. He has been really going at it. He added almost 100 people to the data file in one day! The WGN is going to be a much better place for it.

You will be receiving an email in the near future confirming your membership listing and giving you guidance if you need to update it. After that is sorted out, new membership pages will be appearing. And with this new tool, Roger will be able to keep them up to date on a regular, if not daily basis.



Monday, November 06, 2000 at 03:40:46 (PST)
Paul Latimer

Thanks for the replies to my enquiries. Here is some data on the generations preceding Michael Womack and Sarah (Sally) Jones.
1. Parents of Sarah Jones. Charles Jones, b. 1777, Union Co. SC; m. ca 1794, Union Co. SC; d. 7-25-1833, Bedford Co. TN. Rebecca Norman, b. 2-2-1781, Union Co. SC; d. 12-19-1859, Pike Co. AK.
2. Parents of Charles Jones. David Jones and Tacy (Tacie, Tacey) Floyd. Tacy Floyd was probably related to Anthony Floyd who married Mariah H. Womack (gen. 3).
3. Parents of Rebecca (Reb) Norman. Jonathan Norman, b. 1757, Loudoun Co. VA; d. 1839, Bedford Co. TN. Sarah Martha (Sallie) Bobo, b. before 1760; d. 3-22-1849, Bedford Co. TN.
4. Parents of Jonathan Norman. George Norman, b. between 1727 - 1737 in VA; d. 1795 or 1796 Cross Keys SC. Margaret Dodd, b. ca 1736 in PA; d. 1795 Cross Keys SC.
5. Parents of Margaret Dodd. William Dodd II and Catherine Neederman.
6. Brother of Sarah Jones was Samuel W. Jones who married Paulina Chesshir about 1842. Samuel Jones, b. 6-15-1823, Bedford Co. TN; d. 1-30-1864. Paulina Chesshir, b. 9-6-1826, Halifax VA; d. 4-26-1909, Corinth AK.
7. Parents of Paulina Chesshir. Zachias Chesshir, b. 1792 in VA; m. ca 1815 in VA; d. between 1860-1870 in VA. His father was Baptist Chesshir. His wife was named Ketura (Keturah), b. 1796 in VA; d. after 1875; possible family name of Huelin.

Request -- The grandson of Samuel Jones and Paulina Chesshir was John T. L. Jones, b. 10-13-1897 Hardeman Co. (Quanah) TX. He married Mary Bellah 7-13-1919. I am seeking any information about this Mary Bellah, her ancestors or descendants. Many Thanks.


Monday, November 06, 2000 at 06:19:30 (PST)

Eat your hearts out my US cousins!
Yesterday I went down to Cambridge, stood where Laurence would have stood at Corpus Christi and attended Fellows Formal Hall ( candle-lit dinner, prayers in Latin ) in college.

I mentioned to Nigel (husband!) about the interest some of you have in Womack Water. He suggests you might like to read Arthur Ransome's "Swallows and Amazons" and "Big Six" because Womack Water is mentioned in one of these (apparently the main characters go sailing there)- unfortunately he can't remember which one - it's 30 years since he read them!


Monday, November 06, 2000 at 19:19:26 (PST)
Jack Womack
Looking for Jerold Arblee Womack, son of Arsey Arblee Womack b. Ector co. TX, And Janie Irene Womack, Daughter of Kirk Womack Jr.(Wendell Kirkendall) and Doris Marie Womack also his Daughter. Kirk Jr. was killed in WW2 at Jerfield Germany.Janie born in Odessa, Ector Co., Doris b. Midland, Midland co. Tx
Also looking for Glenda Womack,Daughter of Kirk Womack Sr. She Married J. Ballew


Tuesday, November 07, 2000 at 05:36:54 (PST)
patricia garceau

i went to vote this morning and could not. there were no booths set up and
the judges had no keys to the ballot box. i will try again later, but everyone
says go vote and then you can't. needless to say, i am not a happy camper.
some will not have another chance to do so.

this was at cermak road and mayfair, westchester fire station.

6 am this morning.


Tuesday, November 07, 2000 at 18:23:20 (PST)

Because of the "kiddie Vote" thang here in AZ - there were many people not within the so many feet limit near the time the polls were to close - not to say there are some unhappy campers that will not get to vote cause some idiots did not leave their kids at home and because some idiots thought it would be cute--
My opinion, and if it were me - would be in the Superior court within the hour getting an injunction on closing the polls or sealing the results from that voting area until ALL got their chance -
They want the kids to learn to do that - they got civics classes in school that could accomplish that - not keeping legitimate voters from casting their votes - now we dang sure know the election will not be accurate -


Tuesday, November 07, 2000 at 20:16:03 (PST)
David Dunn

Well folks have been spending time looking at some of the parish registers on film at my local FHC. It's tough because many are not available and many available are not readable. However I found some interesting things in Horringer Suffolk where the Bishop was Rector. Under Burials, "Ann the wife of Lawrence Woomacke" is shown on August 26, 1665. We knew that. But I also found under Burials: Mary Womocke, Jan. 15 1660; and, Mrs. Mary Womacke, Nov. 11, 1665. Wonder who they were?


Thursday, November 09, 2000 at 17:57:07 (PST)

Saturday is Veteran's Day - honor your vets, young and old, living and deceased,
disabled and able - but ensure they deserve it - some dont!

Friday, November 10, 2000 at 16:00:45 (PST)
David Dunn

Here's more from the Horringer Suffolk Parish Register about Womacks. Baptism: "Ann dauter of Larrance and Ann Womack" August 21 1665 making it clear her birth and burial of her mother August 26 1665 are linked, as the Biographical Notes in the volume also say. The Biographical Notes about the Bishop also say "Another child Mary died in infancy" thus explaining that one, and showing that couple did have other kids. But it also says "no children survived him". This is very interesting and not in the DNB article: "In 1642 he succeeded his father at Lopham, but was soon deprived of it. Before that he had been living at Quidenham as chaplain to the Holland family".


Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:43:55 (PST)

Someone probably has these but since I ran across them better duplication than not..
Blount Co TN Marriages

BARNES, Elizabeth marr. WAMACK, Wm C on 26-NOV-1840
WORMACK, Charles marr. FIELDS, Nancy on 26-SEP-1804


Friday, November 10, 2000 at 17:46:45 (PST)
Bea L. King

Researching "Womack" name for my step-children.One Jefferson Lilburn Womack born June 1815 in Kentucky married Jan. 22, 1861 in Louisville, Clay Co., IL. to Catherine Barnett born 11 Feb. 1844 in Cadiz, Ohio. Jefferson's parents were James and Elizabeth Mary (Berry) Womack. Jefferson died in Princeton, Ks on 31 Oct. 1901. They had one known son named Charles Augustus Womack born Oct. 1867 in Xenia, IL. married 7 Feb 1892 in Franklin Co. Ks. to Mary Agusta Roos, born 26 Mar. 1872 in Derry, Quebec, Canada. Charles died 26 Jan. 1952, Princtoon, Ks. They had 5 children; Charles McKendrick; Ralph John; Mary Ethel; Francis Walter; Gertrude and James. Francis called "Fritz" is my connection. Any information would be appreciated. Will share what info I have.

Bea L. King


Saturday, November 11, 2000 at 11:25:47 (PST)
Bob Moore

I found the following yesterday in "The Virginia Genealogist" Vol: 42 for 1998 on page 265: Among list of tithables Southside Henrico county for year 1747--Henry Womock (one tithable). Perhaps others know of this, but new to me.


Wednesday, November 15, 2000 at 16:05:35 (PST)
Roger Womack

David, for some reason I am getting your email returned.
Received your package on the Womacks of Lopham and Mautby. I scanned them and they can be seen in Womack Records, the link is on the WGN homepage. Some of it is a little hard to read.

Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 08:25:35 (PST)
Roger Womack

Posted the Womacks of Mautby in Register (Descendant Ordered) Format, the link is on the Womack Records page. It was hard for me to follow in the original context, hopefully this will be easier to understand. If I made any errors in the translation, please let me know. BTW, David, thank you for sending this info to me.


Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 14:39:08 (PST)
Lavonda Womack

Rick, e-mail address failed, I found out that the brother in the picture with Clyde was named Lee. Leaving Tuesday for Nicaragua for three years hope we can exchange info before that time. Clyde did have family in the Arkansas or Oklahoma area. Don't have anymore info on Clyde's parents or brothers. Thanks


Thursday, November 16, 2000 at 15:29:31 (PST)
Roger Womack

Recieved this email today.

Hello everyone!! The family of Joyce Wommack is sorry to report that
Joyce has passed away. She died at home on Nov. 2. It was very sudden,
and unexpected. She died peacefully.
The family has requested that all memorial gifts be sent to Children's
Hospital in Denver Colorado. From the family of Joyce Wommack
* Womack/Owen Genealogy *

Friday, November 17, 2000 at 11:30:55 (PST)
Roger Womack

Updated the "Womacks of Mautby" to NGS Quarterly (Descendant Ordered) format. Also enlarged the type as per Sam's request, was a bit hard to read. Also David informed me I had made a mistake in the lineage, Lawrence is the son of Hugh, not Arthur, that has been corrected for those who may have looked at this earlier.
Thanks for your help, its always appreciated. Any new ideas for WGN? Let me know.


Sunday, November 19, 2000 at 12:26:10 (PST)

Ladies and Gentlemen,
A moment of your time please.
I have ran a check on the IGI, for what it is worth, on the variations
in our last name -
There are 44 variations in the US; 39 in England; 2 of the ones in the US are
same as in Germany(see below). Here are those I found, so if you get frustrated
next time you cannot find a particular surname - try a variation, there are 72
of them!!



Note: Checking on Wormeck, it is definitely German - all the names of the parents - two sets, are of German origin..Wimick I found in Germany also. I also found one Womack, a female, born in Brandenburg, Germany, 1910. I have previously found a Womack male born in or around Berlin, Germany, late 1890's also. I believe he was on one of those 1917 draft registrations for either AR or TX.

I found one born in Mexico in 1896. Standard spelling. One in New Zealand, 1872
marriage. 1 allegedly of Norway in 1817. Oh yes, I found my 5th great and another marrying in Switzerland on the same day/mon/yr!!

The actual English versions, none in Wales, 1 in Ireland(standard spelling (Also found someone's misguided thought that our William was from Ireland or Scotland).



Sunday, November 19, 2000 at 14:55:07 (PST)
Carol Cleary

Searching for information about Thomas Womac[k]. Married Julia Wilson in 1880's. Children Olive Dorothy Womac aka. Ollie Jane b. 3 July 1889, Bud Womac. Riceville TN area. Family members rumored to have had consumption died in sanitarium? Any information would be greatly appreciated.


Monday, November 20, 2000 at 07:48:01 (PST)
Maggie Kyger Miller

Just read the perfectly marvelous biography of F. M. Womack in the WOMACK GENEALOGY, THE OFFICIAL PUBLICATION OF THE WOMACK FAMILY ASSOCIATION, VOL. IV, NO. 1 - JUNE 1960 - WHOLE NO. 7 .

In it, he speaks of his brother, Wiley Womack, born about 1835 (?) in Franklin (later Coffee) County, Tennessee who married Nancy Matilda Harris (my line).

Wiley was a doctor who moved to Jackson County, Alabama and died there. Wiley and Nancy had three children according to the biography:


Mr. Womack noted that the children lived in Birmingham, Alabama.

After Nancy died, Wiley married two more times, but didn't have children by these wives.

I would love to correspond with any descendants of these children.

Maggie Kyger Miller

Monday, November 20, 2000 at 09:38:05 (PST)
Paul Colman

I am looking for any information on my grandfather. I never met him, and he has most likely passed away. My mother is almost 79 years of age. I was interested to see if my grandfather had any other children, and more about his background. I do know that he was married in San Francisco. He married Blanche Marian Noble. My grandmother died I believe in 1924 or 1925 with TB. My grandfather was born in Yuma, Arizonia. The married certificate is hard to read. I believe they were married July 16,1919. State Index # 907, Local registered No. 3372 and the number 19-028670 on the certificate. His father was Frank Colman born in East Boston, Mass. His mother in Ireland. If you have information and know about his death, I would appreciate you contacting me. Thank you, Kimberly Parsons


Monday, November 20, 2000 at 10:45:36 (PST)
Roger Womack

Paul What was/is your fathers name?


Monday, November 20, 2000 at 19:21:20 (PST)
Bob Moore

Ladies & gentlemen: Seeing Sam's list of Womack name variations caused me to look again at a name I found some where under heading of "People who died 1623/24 @ Flower de Hundred: "Waycome, William". I haven't seen this name any other place in USA but doesn't mean it isn't here still.Thoughts? Bob


Monday, November 20, 2000 at 20:36:28 (PST)
dick duprat

Hello everyone.
I am preparing an article for a local paper (in Patagonia) about Christmas in Wales, mainly during the last century. Got any "stories"?
Await comments.Diolch.


Tuesday, November 21, 2000 at 14:16:44 (PST)
David Dunn

Bob. That's a "hmmm?". However, punching "Waycome" into the IGI with exact spelling off yields thousands of "Wakehams" including over 200 Wiliams in the UK. Another interesting thing about that list (it's online at Rootsweb) is one "Christopher Pugett" living at Flowerdew Hundred in 1623.


Thursday, November 23, 2000 at 06:29:17 (PST)

(And, may the only bird you get come from the oven!!)


Thursday, November 23, 2000 at 11:39:07 (PST)
Bonnie L Womack

Wishing all the Womacks near and far a Blessed and Safe Thanksgiving. God is truly so good to all of us!


Thursday, November 23, 2000 at 16:48:45 (PST)
Lisa Womack Wolfe

I am looking for descendants of William Wesley (Wes) Womack/wife Jennie?...and their son Bunah Moore Womack.


Thursday, November 23, 2000 at 19:00:48 (PST)
Donna O'Neal

Need info on Dielander/Dialdener Thacker/Rude b-1830 Tn. married George Womack 1854 Illinois. They had 1 Dau- Sara.


Friday, November 24, 2000 at 04:42:42 (PST)


Thought this interesting:
1. Abraham WOMACK - International Genealogical Index/BI Gender:
M Birth: 1644 England
Parents: Father: William WOMACK Mother: Mary Jane Widow ALLEN

2. Abraham WOMACK - International Genealogical Index/BI Gender:
M Birth: 1668 Of, England
Father: Abraham WOMACK Mother: Elizabeth SOMERCHAS

3. ABRAHAM WOMACK - International Genealogical Index/BI Gender:
M Marriage: 1660 Of, , England
Spouse: Elizabeth SOMERCHAS Marriage: 1660 Of, , England

Now some one in their infinite wisdom sayin old Abe born in England??
This would indicate perhaps Ole Will mebbe was jest the father of an
immigrant?? From the "for what its worth department" at IGI.

Also, Somer/Summerscales are all over where the Womack's came from
in England - However the above last name didnt find anywhere but as

Friday, November 24, 2000 at 05:53:24 (PST)
Joan Ellen Womack

as so excited to find 'womack' web site!
Looking for anyone related to Walter and Ellen Womack of New Mexico, formaly of Durant, Oklahoma, Ellens maiden name Bains, father John Bains.
Children of walter and ellen, Billy Joe [my father], John, Walter, Inez, Dovie, Louise, and Betty Ruth.
Thank You
Joanie Womack


Friday, November 24, 2000 at 06:05:44 (PST)
Ann Mitchell Horne

James W. Womack m. Lenora "Nora" Wilson c. 1880, probably in Prince Edward County, VA. Two sons, Egbert and Frank. Egbert died after 1951. Does anyone know these Womack?
Nora was the daughter of Nathaniel Clay Wilson of Charlotte County, VA. Have much to share on that line.


Friday, November 24, 2000 at 15:59:42 (PST)
Tony Dell

Hello again everyone.
I have been unable to locate any more on my Womack connection but hope to do so over the coming summer (that's summer here in Australia). Just a small point to make, (as I have been pouring through the message archives to see if I do strike a hit.)
On 13 Aug 98, Jan Womack posted a message which seemed to indicate that the Womacks were Catholic or Catholic sympathisers during the 17th/18th centuries. However if the Womack bishop was married and had kids, then at least one branch must have converted.
Also David Dunn mentioned (on 10 Nov 2000), that he was deprived of his parish/diocese whatever in 1642. Does anyone know why this would be. My guess would be that he backed the wrong side during the civil war. (The first real hostilities were at Naseby in 1642, but I'm not sure where Naseby actually is, or whether he would have been close enough to have been involved.)
If I have erred in my thinking, or have crossed a line that I shouldn't have, please feel free to point out the error of my ways.
Best regards
Tony Dell


Saturday, November 25, 2000 at 18:03:14 (PST)

Hi Y'all
I have been working that Henry Womack line in Accomack Co VA - If the IGI and
Rootsweb is anywhere near right - there was another distinct line of Womacks
in VA around the same time or before our particular one was - I am still a bit
hesitant to agree with a date of birth of Henry of 1625 in Middlesex Co VA (Not
MA as I have seen before)--but the 1649 marriage date there looks good - The
earliest child I found born was Apr 9,1653 -

Heck, even found a Sam born in Aug 1654 - this Samuel had the earliest born
Jacob I have ever found in the US - 1684 the others appear to start in the 1700's.

Most of the people have actual dates of birth/marriage and death - I couldnt
figure why a Brewer line (which I also have) had anything to do with this -
but the Brewer tied into Tabor which ties into the Henry line -

If anyone has anything to add to this line - more than willing to share what I got.


Sunday, November 26, 2000 at 18:30:14 (PST)

Thanks for your input to the Henry line picked up 14 more people and some more dates.


Monday, November 27, 2000 at 12:50:34 (PST)
Ann McDonald

a couple of notes from the inbox on my webpage -
Mary Hill is looking for the ancestors of John Womack who m. Sarah M. Baisden in Mississippi. He had a daughter Martha Ann Womack, and died sometime between 1851 and 1865.

Paul N. Womack is still looking for Iowa Womacks descendants of Walton Womack.

If ya'll can help them, please drop them a line! Ann


Monday, November 27, 2000 at 15:45:17 (PST)
Dawn Cohen

I am trying to find information on my grandmother's family. Her name was Mary Louise Womac born 18 Apr 1904 and died in November 1979. Her mothers name was Lila and her fathers name was Henry Womac. They lived in Newton County Georgia. Her brothers and sisters were Rosco, Henry Lee, Sam & Jannie (twins) and Mattie. Does any one have any information on Mary Louise Womac parnets such as dates and who their parents were, ect? I can be reached at dawncohen@yahoo Thanks!


Monday, November 27, 2000 at 18:41:52 (PST)
Andy Chance

Searching ancestors of Fannie Lou Womack b. 2 Sep 1898, d. 17 Mar 1988. This Fannie married George Martin Hanson and lived mostly in Carroll County, Georgia. Her mother died when Fannie was an infant, and Fannie was raised by her Grandmother. When Fannie was a teenager, her Grandmother died, and she went to live with her Aunt Jennie (her mother's sister) until she married my Grandfather, George Martin Hanson. Fannie's mother is believed to be Della Greenwood. Both Della and Jennie married Womacks (brothers). Jennie had two children, Buna and Carrie Lee. If anyone has information on these Womacks and Greenwoods, please reply.


Tuesday, November 28, 2000 at 14:37:07 (PST)
David Dunn

I have a number of comments about recent postings. I've been doing some intensive research into the IGI and Norfolk records. To start with Sam's post about Abraham and his sometimes supposed wife Sarah Summerscales (choose your own spelling). Sam when you say there were Summerscales "all over where the Womacks came from" you must mean Yorkshire, because that's where I found them, and not in Norfolk. Now remember when we are looking for the source of the immigrants to Henrico Co. VA we are looking for people from about say 1600 to 1673 (the earliest actual date there is any evidence they were there - Richard's 1673 Land Patent). During that period there were legions of Womacks in Norfolk, but only one family in Yorkshire. If you look at the IGI there might appear to be two families in Yorkshire but that is a mistake and leads me to an observation about the IGI. You have to be very careful about that source. As they themselves say, they accept what people send them without checking its accuracy. It's up to you to check the sources. I accept entries only when there is a verifiable source given that I can check - for instance a parish record. And I have looked at the parish record for Wragby Yorkshire and confirmed that there was a family there. There appears to be a family from "Wragley" Yorkshire, but hold on. There is no such place. What's more, every individual listed as "Wragley" matches exactly an individual in the parish register for Wragby. No "Wragley" entry refers to a parish register or other record. All refer to submissions to the Church (e.g. "endowments for the dead" etc.). In other words, what happened is someone made a submission and made a mistake. Actually, later, other people must have copied the data and copied the mistake because for some individuals there are multiple erroneous entries. Now, about that one real Yorkshire Womack 17th century family. There was a Richard who married in Wragby in 1619 and had four kids - two sons Thomas in 1621 and William in 1634. So he appears to have stuck around but then again I don't find a burial for him or his wife - ? His son Thomas definitely stuck around because he married and had kids from 1649-1671. Of Richard's son William there is no further record so he probably went somewhere but he is a poor candidate for the father of the early Henrico brothers because Abraham was born 1644/8 according to his depositions. So there you are. Thomas who had five sons who survived infancy may well have been the founder of the very large family of Womacks who appear in Yorkshire in great numbers in the eighteenth century with many there today. So there is a chance this family is the source of the Henrico immigrants. And there is always the chance that this family was an offshoot of the Norfolk family since they don't appear in this parish until 1619. I still think the Norfolk family is the probable source, about which more later.


Tuesday, November 28, 2000 at 17:47:51 (PST)



Wednesday, November 29, 2000 at 18:39:40 (PST)
David Dunn

For Tony Dell and everyone. Jan Womack sent me a paper some time ago and I can't find it (darn) but I think the Catholic group was the Dronfield Derbyshire family in the 18th/19th centuries. Jan am I right? Certainly the Norfolk family seem to have followed the Crown and converted to the Anglican/Church of England faith about the time that Henry VIII did all the mischief c. 1534/6, although one James had been rector of Yaxham before then. From c. 1550 on through 1685 there were multiple Anglican Womack Rectors in what I call the Womack Rectangle of Norfolk - at least eight in six parishes. (There were many more in the late seventeenth and into the eightenth centuries.) And yes they definitely were on the wrong side of the Civil War. The Arthur who was Rector of Fersfield at the time went to jail for his Royalist remarks. Bishop (later) Lawrence was no doubt displaced, as many Royalists were, by Puritans who after the Restoration were said to have "usurped" rectories; mechanisms were set up to compensate the "plundered" ministers. The Bishop who seems to have been in the wilderness during the Cromwell years returned to prominence and was a stalwart defender of the establishment after the Restoration.


Wednesday, November 29, 2000 at 18:42:38 (PST)
David Dunn

Jan, having mentioned you in my last message, I am emboldened to ask you if you ever found the records you thought you might have about William Womack the Vicar of Gestingthorpe in Essex?


Wednesday, November 29, 2000 at 20:05:43 (PST)

Just a lil ole URL you might want to take a look at


Wednesday, November 29, 2000 at 21:42:22 (PST)

A little trivia

Sheriffs of Norwich, 1835 - 1990
WOMACK G Jnr. Sheriff 1852

Thursday, November 30, 2000 at 03:36:58 (PST)

Omigod what a muddle. House full of builders. Will attempt to unravel queries this evening. Have deaths of richard and Mary of Wragby etc. Also many families in yorks in 1600! Jan


Thursday, November 30, 2000 at 16:38:45 (PST)

Re Davids query - the Womacks who were deep Catholic sympathisers went into hiding at Spinkhill in Nottingham. Presumably the others were more interested in keeping their heads!


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